*** begin quote ***
Please explain the notion of marriage which is not a civil agreement. The churches can do their things, I’m OK with it. But if someone wants to get married (not gay, just not via the church) he has an option of registering in the city hall. What’s the L alternative? A contract at a lawyer’s office? I’m OK with it – but it needs to carry the benefits “formal” marriage brings. I’m OK with destroying the entire system so these “benefits” will not be provided by the government – but until we do you have an unjust system. So to say we are not going to give gays the right to marry because we think the government should be out of this business is a bit unfair.
*** end quote ***
Ahh, see, that’s where you get into trouble … Courtesy of the gooferment … “benefits”. There are NO benefits to “marriage” UNTIL the goofermetn gets involved. Marriage is a PRIVATE matter between consenting adults. Recognizing it in a commumnity of like minded individuals — call it chaurch or the local gay commnity — is again a private matter. No one’s business but those folks who voluntarily associate with each other. What benefits do you see in marraige that come from anywhere else but the gooferment? I personally don’t care who marrys. I do care that I am forced to pay for all the gooferment benefits.
*** begin quote ***
As to the protecting the weak – I’m not a big believer in Human good hearts. If it wasn’t for the government, retarded people as well as people with physical disabilities would be killed – as it was the case in old societies. And since economists and libertarian put financial value on everything they can claim with clean conscious that it made financial sense to keep them alive. Something I can’t subscribe to. Thoughts?
*** end quote ***
Well, you need to update your perceptions. Americans are a SPECTACULARLY generous people. Despite paying heavy taxes, look at the response to the Tsunami. Third world people. Half a globe away. And the amount of money that was donated by real people was staggering. Then the various gooferments got involved ripping it off. Read your history. The first hospitals, orphanages, “rest homes” were all the result of Churches and the charity of their members. I think you’ll find that economists and little L libertarians are very “charitable” when it comes to keeping people alive. It is all about dollars and cents. We have limited resources so we must be very smart how we use them. People take care of other people. Once the gooferment gets involved then the problems begin. Morality is not an economic calculation. Besides businesses first provided benefits to get good workers and get around the WW2 wage and price controls. Workers work harder when there is a comfortable retirement at the end of the rainbow. It’s the social welfare programs of the Federal Gooferment in Social Security that litterally destroyed the extended family structure when it enabled grandparents to abscond to Florida with their social security check paid for by future generations. The gooferment also destroyed the Black Churches and the Black Family with welfare. So don’t think that the gooferment is innocent in this mess. Were there abuses? Sure, but I bet a lot less than today’s gooferment care paradigm.
*** begin quote ***
I rather see less government but I’m being realistic and the no-government future isn’t realistic right now so how do we minimize the role of government while being fair about it is a question I’m struggling with. To tell my friend whose a teacher whose husband died two years back and left her with three kids that she can’t have health insurance but if they’re about to die she can take them to the ER isn’t OK with me. I know it’s not MY causing and not MY problem but as a human being it bothers me. How can you live with this?
*** end quote ***
Well, I think the no-gov future is getting more realistic as the current set of crooks spend us into bankruptcy. The spigot is going to go dry. That Russian might be right; the USA will devolve into smaller states. We have to do some “minimizing”! Some time or other. I vote R and get bigger gooferment. I vote D and get bigger gooferment. I listen to candidates who swear up and down that they are different; they turn out to be same old same old.
Now, let’s look at your specific case. You’re friend, the teacher. The husband dies without life insurance. (Not surprising. Cantor Fitgerald, the Wall Street firm, wiped out by 9/11, had 95% of their employees had NO life insurance. Financial industry professionals.) So someone made a choice to forgo life insurance. (My Mom made me buy mine when I got married. She said: “A husband, who dies without life insurace for his family, doesn’t die; he absconds.” She’d seen too many widows in desparate striaghts because of it.) I feel bad. But, some one made a bad choice. Now she has three children and doesn’t have medical insurance. She’s obviously not teaching now. They all have gold plated benefits. So what have you done to HELP her solve her problem. I’m assuming that YOU could buy her a catastrophic health insuance for 500$ per month. What about her family? Her social organizations? I spend a lot of money each month helping two differnet relatives out of my own (unemployed) pocket. You can’t look to the government to solve problems; they can only create them.
I live with the current environment because I know I didn’t create it and I can’t fix it. I can “clean up” my little part of the Universe.
*** begin quote ***
The reason I’m asking is not to argue or tease, it’s because I really don’t have a good answer
*** end quote ***
I took the time to answer becuase I think that you’re not arguing or teasing. I know that you’ve got a good head and heart from our time together at XXXXXXXXX. Of course, you were a mucky muck and I was a peon. (I learned along time ago that I don’t want to be a mucky muck. Too painful!) I think if WE empower people and hold them accountable for their choices, we’ll all be better off.
:-)
# # # # #
Posted by reinkefj 
Reinke Faces Life 
You must be logged in to post a comment.