New comment on your post #3128 “LIBERTY: years of incarceration in these state Conformity Camps”
Author : Ken Jarvis
URL : http://VINISACOWARD
Comment:
HE WILL NEVER REPLY TO AN EMAIL
OR RETURN A PHONE CALL.
TO ANSWER THE QUESTION –
WHAT WOULD HE REPLACE PUBLIC SCHOOLS – WITH?
Ken Jarvis
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***FJR***
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>HE WILL NEVER REPLY TO AN EMAIL OR RETURN A PHONE CALL.
I assume you mean Vin.
>TO ANSWER THE QUESTION –
Has anyone every told you that all uppercase is like yelling at someone.
>WHAT WOULD HE REPLACE PUBLIC SCHOOLS – WITH?
I can’t speak for Vin, but I can for myself.
I’d replace them with NOTHING!
During the nu jerzee florio tax revolt, I thought we could use vouchers for a weaning off period of say 20 years. We didn’t get into this mess overnight. So we can’t expect to get out overnight.
I don’t have it handy but it went something like this.
(1) 40 year plan to get the gooferment out of eddycation. First twenty, 5% of the students each year get a green voucher that they can spend for the education of their choice; the rest get a red on that can only be used at their local gooferment skoolz. Second twenty, the vouchers decrease 5% per year until they are zero.
(2) Parents choose, but the vouchers can’t be cashed. There are no gooferment standards for skoolz. If the parents sign over the voucher, then that’s it.
(3) Each existing gooferment skoolz is given to the principle, teachers, and custodians as a corporation. There has to be a bond for the guaranteed twenty years of students they are asked to educate.
At the end of 40 years, we are done.
:-)
fjohn
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***Ken Jarvis***
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>>HE WILL NEVER REPLY TO AN EMAIL OR RETURN A PHONE CALL.
>I assume you mean Vin.
Right.
>>TO ANSWER THE QUESTION –
>Has anyone every told you that all uppercase is like yelling at someone.
Yes,
but I use CAPS for EMPHASIS.
>>WHAT WOULD HE REPLACE PUBLIC SCHOOLS – WITH?
>I can’t speak for Vin, but I can for myself.
>I’d replace them with NOTHING!
No schools?
NONE at ALL?
No schools is NOT working well in
3rd world countries.
>During the nu jerzee florio tax revolt, I thought we could use vouchers for a weaning
>off period of say 20 years. We didn’t get into this mess overnight.
>So we can’t expect to get out overnight.
>I don’t have it handy but it went something like this.
>(1) 40 year plan to get the gooferment out of eddycation. First twenty, 5% of the students each year get a
>green voucher that they can spend for the education of their choice; the rest get a red on that can only be
>used at their local gooferment skoolz. Second twenty, the vouchers decrease 5% per year until they are zero.
>(2) Parents choose, but the vouchers can’t be cashed. There are no gooferment standards for skoolz. If the
>parents sign over the voucher, then that’s it.
>(3) Each existing gooferment skoolz is given to the principle, teachers, and custodians as a corporation.
>There has to be a bond for the guaranteed twenty years of students they are asked to educate.
>At the end of 40 years, we are done.
I am assuming this is an attempt at humor.
Otherwise it just sounds like BS to me.
Ken
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***Ken Jarvis***
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In this country – education is compulsory – learning is optional
THE WAY TO GIVE ALL STUDENTS THE BEST TRAINING IN ANY SUBJECT.
Why don’t they take THE BEST Teacher for EACH subject, and Videotape their class.
Then, play the video in EVERY CLASS ROOM, for that subject, in the state, and on PBS.
As an example, let’s use Freshman High School English.
Make Each Video 30 minutes.
The video would be played at the Beginning of each class
and the Remainder of the class time would be used for an
IN CLASS teacher to discuss the tape, and answer questions.
If a Student missed a class, they would be REQUIRED to watch those tapes.
That way EVERY student of Freshman English, in EVERY school in NV would
get the same information.
===
Nevada should have a Goal to be the
BEST STATE IN THE UNION.
To be the Best State
we Need the Smartest People.
To have the Smartest People
they must be the BEST EDUCATED.
To get the Best Education
we Need the Best Teachers.
We get the BEST Teachers
by paying them better than any other state.
At present, NV has NO goal.
Ken Jarvis
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***FJR***
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No, gooferment skoolz. We’ll still have schools. They just won’t be government run, government funded, or government regulated. No gooferment involvement at all.
Now before you freak out, we had great schools before the gooferment got involved. We will again.
Education is too important to be left to gooferment.
Parents don’t have children to leave them uneducated. They are an investment in the future and their legacy.
My plan was much more formal and had citations to working examples and research topics. The idea was essentially migrate out of the mess, out parents in charge, and “abandon” the current assets in the custody of the inmates.
Third world countries fail because their socialist gooferment enslave their people.
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***FJR***
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> education is compulsory – learning is optional
We agree on that.
>THE WAY TO GIVE ALL STUDENTS THE BEST TRAINING IN ANY SUBJECT
There we disagree. There is no one “best” way. People are unique. And, the gooferment’s “one size fits all” solution (to EVERY problem) is exactly OPPOSITE what the free market will deliver. To satisfy the demand, we have MickeyDs, BurgerKing, and Wendys just to name a few. If the market does that with just “hamburgers”, imagine what it will do with education.
>NV GOAL: BEST STATE IN THE UNION
I’d suggest that the goal should be the “free-est” state. “Best” will follow quickly behind that.
>
I loved NV in the 70’s. No gambling age, no drinking age, no speed limits. Where did you all go wrong?
:-)
I guess we’ll just have to disagree agreeably!
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***Ken Jarvis***
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>No, gooferment skoolz. We’ll still have schools. They just won’t be government run,
>government funded, or government regulated. No gooferment involvement at all.
WHO would build the schools?
Let’s start there.
>Now before you freak out, we had great schools before the gooferment got involved. We will again.
WHEN was that
The govt has ALWAYS RUN the schools.
>Education is too important to be left to gooferment.
What part of the govt
don’t you like?
We drive on govt built highways,
our money is in FDIC insured Banks,
the FHA finances my home,
I went to college on the GI Bill.
Other than Closing the schools
HOW would YOU fix things?
>Parents don’t have children to leave them uneducated. They are an investment in the future and their legacy.
>My plan
I must have missed it.
What is it?
>was much more formal and had citations to working examples and research topics.
>The idea was essentially migrate out of the mess, out parents in charge, and
>”abandon” the current assets in the custody of the inmates.
Third world countries fail because their socialist gooferment enslave their people.
Education is the MOST POWERFUL tool
anyone can have.
KJ
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***FJR***
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KJ> education is compulsory – learning is optional
JR>We agree on that.
KJ>THE WAY TO GIVE ALL STUDENTS THE BEST TRAINING IN ANY SUBJECT
There we disagree. There is no one “best” way.
KJ>With the plan I present
KJ>ALL students HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME INFO.
KJ>It is what they do with it
KJ>that matters.
People are unique. And, the gooferment’s “one size fits all” solution (to EVERY problem) is exactly OPPOSITE what the free market will deliver.
KJ>How about an example.
To satisfy the demand, we have MickeyDs, BurgerKing, and Wendys just to name a few. If the market does that with just “hamburgers”, imagine what it will do with education.
KJ>Hamburgers – Schools?????
KJ> You say one place –
KJ>”exactly OPPOSITE what the free market will deliver.” (free market is good)
KJ>”If the market does that with just “hamburgers”, imagine what it will do with education.”
KJ> – (free market is bad)
OK.
I give up.
Which is it?
KJ>NV GOAL: BEST STATE IN THE UNION
I’d suggest that the goal should be the “free-est” state. “Best” will follow quickly behind that.
JR>I loved NV in the 70’s. No gambling age,
BS
JR>no drinking age,
BS
JR>no speed limits.
BS
JR>Where did you all go wrong?
Change that to –
Where did fjohn go wrong?
He started reading Vin
the Weedman.
KJ
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***FJR***
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KJ>WHO would build the schools?
The same people who build mcdonalds, wendys, … and everything else. The “evil corporations” in search of a profit. They will “figure out” how to educate children in such a way that their parents will give them “certificates of appreciation” (i.e., money) for doing it.
KJ>The govt has ALWAYS RUN the schools
Government schools is relatively modern development. In the late 1800’s, the Prussian aristocracy wanted a population of factory workers and soldiers and they “invented” government education. In the early 1900, Horace Mann and Thomas Dewey imported that model to the United States. Prior to “mandatory attendance” laws, education was up to the parents. Communities formed schools (i.e., the one room school house) and they were voluntarily funded by the prominent citizens of the community. In the cities, churches and charities formed schools, and HOSPITALS, for the poor. It wasn’t until the 1950s that Big Gooferment moved in and “claimed” a mandate to provide “education”. Sigh, it has been ALL downhill since.
Lest you think not, there’s a high school graduation test from the 1890’s floating around on the net from some middle state. I tried it and I’d be hard pressed to pass it. We currently rank in the middle of all the countries of the world in academics. I read somewhere where the USA graduates 300,000 functionally illiterates from high school.
When you are in Detroit with a map of Atlanta, you’re lost. You need a new map. Similarly, we are “lost” in the muck of gooferment education, and we too need a new “map”. Fortunately we have one. Look at the pre-school education marketplace (i.e., montessori and it’s competitors) and look at the alternative IT education marketplace. There real people pay real money for results. The results are outstanding and the costs drop year over year. Like the computer industry where ruthless competition gives us better for less.
KJ>What part of the govt don’t you like?
All of it.
Gooferment makes us pay for services that we can’t use, don’t want, or if we have to use it costs far more than is reasonable.
KJ>We drive on govt built highways,
And, they are over-priced wrecks.
I can go through line by line and try to explain what a bad deal gooferment is for the productive class. But, I doubt I’d ever convince you.
KJ>fix things
I’m supporting Ron Paul for President. My rx is always the same: end ALL the wars — foreign and domestic, stop the dole — for people and companies, bring the troops home, cut the gooferment back to strict constitutional size, pardon all the non-violent people in prison, phase out “publik eddikation”, and return to honest money.
KJ>my plan
I detailed three basic points to end gooferment education. (1) Repeal mandatory attendance and create a multi-decade exit strategy; (2) reempower parents in educating their children; and (3) give the school infrastructure over to the principals, teachers, and janitors and let them compete.
KJ>Education is the MOST POWERFUL tool
Nope, liberty is. The freedom to make mistakes. The ability to follow one’s dreams and keep the fruits of one’s labor is the best that can be achieved in this life.
>
We have to agree to disagree agreeably. We have completely different paradigms, memes, and values.
But thanks for the conversations and blog fodder.
fjohn
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***Ken Jarvis***
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I appreciate your replies
but YOU ARE SO FAR OFF BASE
that I will cover your reply
point by point.
KJ>WHO would build the schools?
JR>The same people who build mcdonalds, wendys, … and everything else.
The Govt builds the schools
There is NO profit in Education.
Private Corps build McD, W….
and they do it for a profit.
KJ
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***Ken Jarvis***
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JR>Government schools is relatively modern development.
First –
YOU and NUtty Vin call them Govt schools
The SANE World calls them PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
Schools – usually ONE ROOM
started immediately after the pilgrams landed.
KJ
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***Ken Jarvis***
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>What part of the govt don’t you like?
All of it.
Gooferment makes us pay for services that we can’t use,
Example Please.
don’t want,
Example Please.
KJ
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***FJR***
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I have no children, yet I am forced at gunpoint to pay for gooferment skools. I am forced to do all sorts of things and pay for the insult. FDA, DEA, CIA, FBI, TSA, FEMA … etc. etc.
I have no desire for the gooferment “social security insurance” ponzi scheme that has an roi of between -1% and .5% depending upon who you believe while monetary inflation exceeds an average of 5%.
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***FJR***
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One more try.
>There is NO profit in Education
Exactly. There is NO profit in education. (Ignoring for the moment pre-school like montesorri and goddard. And, ignore the post high-school non-college t”technical” education. That both do quite nicely.)
The lack of profits cause three problems:
(1) How does the gooferment skool know when its spending or charging correctly. In the absences of a competitively determined price, how do we know when we have put enough money into schools? When the politicians, bureaucrats, and other tell us we have? (This is typical of all socialist enterprises as identified brilliantly by vonMises in his book “socialism” in the 1920s.) In business, one seeks to deliver a service at a profit at a price the consumer is willing to pay. Schools have no “profit” to steer by.
(2) What happens when the gooferment skool fails? Nothing. The elite throw more money at the problem. The absence of “profit” means there is no market mechanism to tell the participants to stop.
(3) What happens to the consumers when there are NO profits. The Catholic, parochial, and private schools have gone broke when the gooferment provides a free good. So how do the socialists know when another school is needed? In a free market, if you’re running a school and making lots of profits, then competitors will be summoned magically to the opportunity and build schools to compete.
The problem is SOCIALISM. The problem is GOOFERMENT. The problem is we can’t see that the same solution, which feeds us, can educate the children.
I’m an injineer, not a writer or an economist or a social scientist, but it seems so obvious to me.
They say that insanity is “doing more of the same and expecting different results”. We are collectively INSANE if we think gooferment is going to solve our problems.
The Socialists — Mann and Dewey — imported the Prussian system of education to create a dumbed down society of factory workers and soldiers that could be led by the elite. (Google a guy named Ghatto who has written extensively about it.)
As I said agree to disagree agreeably.
fjohn
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***Ken Jarvis***
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JR>I have no children,
Maybe someday.
JR>yet I am forced at gunpoint
“gunpoint”?
You should tell Vin.
THAT would be a REAL News story.
JR>to pay for gooferment skools.
Who Paid for YOUR education?
JR>I am forced to do all sorts of things and pay for the insult. FDA, DEA, CIA, FBI, TSA, FEMA … etc. etc.
I agree with you.
There SHOULD be a USA National Lottery
so that THOSE THINGS PEOPLE FAVOR
COULD BE PAID FOR – BY THEM.
Education
ALL of the money going to Education
Iraq War
Political Campaigns
To be divided between Candidates
We MUST get the $$$$ OUT of politics.
I proposed this some time back.
With a NLottery
we would ALL Pay for THOSE THINGS WE BELIEVE IN
AND WANT.
>I have no desire for the gooferment “social security insurance” ponzi scheme that
>has an roi of between -1% and .5% depending upon who you believe while monetary
>inflation exceeds an average of 5%.
When you start getting the checks
just tear them up
and throw them away.
What stock would you invest in?
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***FJR***
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At this point, I’m exhausted.
It was fun, but you can convince socialists that they have bad paradigms (i.e., how they perceive things), memes (a.k.a., ideas; methods; concepts), or values (i.e., what’s important).
But it makes great blog fodder.
Please feel free to engage KJ directly.
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